'Near the Pier' Reef Meeting dates...

Pier#r · 6 p.m. on June 24, 2008

http://www.alapark.com/press/release.cfm?ID=611

IF you want to be heard, NOW is the time.
BE THERE!

Pier#r · Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:36 pm Post subject:

http://www.7is7.com/otto/countdow...20State%20Park%20Pier%20reopening

Click for active countdown...

btucker51175 · Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:49 pm Post subject:

that's funny.

do you think the fish will be there by summer?
_________________
Brad Tucker
Can't wait tell Dec. 30th Winter Bobo's

Jigslinger · Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:26 pm Post subject:

I just may have to check out the motel situation around Orange Beach next April. I can't wait for the reports to start in March. It ought to be good!
_________________
Rob

debigone23 · Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:12 pm Post subject:

obie, when the new gulf state park pier opens are u gonna put a little section for reports and other stuff like that??
_________________
14' landu john boat

and 21' sea king center console

team "sundown"

shannon chapman

Pier#r · Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:23 pm Post subject:

I'm sure when GSPPier (and Navarre) reopen they will have thier own folder again

The ONLY public attendees at the 1st meeting (Tuesday evening) in Gulf Shores was me and one other fisherman (a transplant from LI NY and his wife).
He wanted to know why the reefs wouldn't be put UNDER the pier. (A: the reefs could damage the pier during a hurricane)
I asked if spotlights would be shining on the water at night. (A: NO, the US Fish & Wildlife will not allow lighting to be directed at the water)

The DCNR Marine Resources put together a fine Power Point presentation (which they hope to have on their website next week)
to inform the public of several contingencies they are proposing (pending CoE approval) to place rubble from the old pier around the new pier to enhance the fish attracting ability of the pier.
They are asking for public input (@ dcnr.amrd@dcnr.alabama.gov by July 7th) as to:
1. Put a few LARGE reefs around the pier
2. Put a lot of SMALL reefs around the pier
3. Put a mix of LARGE & SMALL reefs around the pier
4. Put NO reefs around the pier

IF #4 is adopted (or the CoE rejects the proposal) then the old pier would be barged offshore and deployed there

Potentially, the permitting process with the CoE could take up to 6 months and the state would prefer to place the reefs BEFORE the pier opens,
so the implication seemed to be that could delay the pier opening in March :o :?
Still I voted for #3 (see graphic below) as it seemed to make the most sense to me to have the surronding reefs to increase the biomass potential of the whole area.
That would put the smaller reefs nearer the sand bar and the large reefs in deeper water 20'-25' around the end.
And I recommended placing signs or painting the rail showing where the reefs were in relation to the pier.

NOTE: the reefs would deployed 150'-200' from the pier with a perpendicular orientation to the pier to present less area to potentially snag onto.
The distance was determined to be outside the casting range of MOST anglers anyway, but mainly to allow an access lane for a repair barge to pull up along side the pier should it be needed in the future.
The third reason was it put ALL the reefs INSIDE the 300 foot boating exclusion zone which will be enforced.

YOU do have an opportunity to make yourself heard, either at tonite's meeting (in Foley) or by email before July 7th.
Hope to see ya out there in March!

Deloney · Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:40 pm Post subject:

Thanks Pier#r for showing up at the meeting and giving a voice for the fisherman. I wish it was where I could make it to any of the meetings, but the 6-7 hour drive is too much for me. I agree with you on the approximate layout of the reefs also. I would not put them any closer as the snag potential would be pretty bad with them. I think the attraction of them for the larger pelagic fish will be excellent though due to the amount of bait that will congregate in the general area. Might even see some grouper showing up as a semi-regular catch in the cooler months. It is a shame on the lighting as that would make for one heck of a night spot, but it looks like that is a done deal as far as that goes. Thanks again for representing everyone out there and I hope to get to fish it with you one of these days. Matthew

Pier#r · Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:20 am Post subject:

Thanks Matt. You and others can still reply to the proposal @ dcnr.amrd@dcnr.alabama.gov

I have reconsidered the idea of reefs all the way around the end,
and IMHO it would be beter IF the end of the pier was the farthest structure out in the Gulf.
I think about the problems Navarre Pier had with the structure (of the old end) on the bottom holding bait (and fish) AWAY from the fishermen on the end of the pier. That happened many days

Jeff dute of the Mobile Register was out on the new GSPPier last week and said the pier is already holding baitfish.
It's little wonder being it is already much farther out from the sandbar than the old pier ever was

Tiderider · Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:28 pm Post subject:

I really don't know how I missed this topic, but thanks for showing up at the meetings. I think the reef layout is awesome. I can't believe how fast the pier is being built, they will make THOUSANDS of dollars before Navarre Pier is even started. Typical Santa Rosa County, you snooze you loose.
Ben there will definitely be a Gulf Shores Pier section when it is open, I just hope some of the fisherman out there will visit the forum and give us a report every now and again.
_________________
Go Fishing you can't catch them sitting on the couch!!!

Pier#r · Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 5:28 pm Post subject:

Here's the 'official' presentation of the report.
http://www.outdooralabama.com/fishing/saltwater/GSP_Pier_Reefs.pdf
Kudos to Kevin Ansen (sp?) with Marine Resources for getting that done.

The public has until July 14th to respond @ dcnr.amrd@dcnr.alabama.gov
or call 251- 968-7576

Here is a copy of the email I sent them:

plotalot · Cobia Joined: 05 Mar 2008 Posts: 266

Dave, you mentioned that structure under the pier possibly causing damage to the pier during a hurricane is the reason for not doing just that. Do they fully realize the true strength of a hurricane? Ivan picked up the parking lot at Navarre and moved parts of it across the road. Any reef material within a few miles of the pier could damage it.

I would suggest putting all of the reef material on the west side of the pier within casting range, aka almost straight down. Unless hurricanes start developing the ability to rotate in either direction within the same hemisphere it wouldn't be an issue.

There is of course the factor of sediment associated with any reef material in conjunction with the pier no matter how and were it may be placed or the pier itself for that matter. Sediment could build up or wash away, there are engineers that study currents and material flow that can't predict things exactly. There is noway that I would claim to know what would happen if what was placed where. I will however, state that anything placed in the way will have an effect; maybe good maybe bad.
_________________
It's my duty to make fish pay for their mistakes.

Pier#r · Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 12:32 am Post subject:

Yeah, they put a lot into researching the placement of the reefs (and reef types) and storm events (that's why they fought the Feds to get the pier moved to the east out of the Lake Shelby outflow plume).
Hopefully they can maximixe the good with the reefs (attracting reef fish and generally increasing the biomass of the pier area),
while minimizing the 'bad' with the reefs (like storms moving them or fish being pulled away from the pier instead of attracted to it).

The reef materials proposed are pictured in their presentation:
mainly pyramids on the deep end (a proven hurricane resistent reef design with minimal entanglement area).
Also the old pilings will be cross connected somehow (like a straw stack),
to minimize the sedimentation (as if they were laying flat on the bottom).
And the nearer sandbar reefs are the 'tiered stack reefs' that will be secured by a vertical pole through the center to minimize sedimention and water drag.

However, these designs being raised above the bottom to prevent sedimentation increase the likelyhood of being an entanglement danger.
Hopefully they will be secure enough to withstand a hurricane swell event (likely every few years).

givnupfreshwater · Ladyfish Joined: 24 Jul 2007 Posts: 37 Location: Georgia

I think with the pier extended out in the gulf the pier will attract bait fish. I fear any reefs will only keep the bait fish/fish away from the pier but I really worry about large fish using their new habitat of reefs to intangle/break off fisherman. Most fish will do this. I'm not sure the reefs are a good idea. I fished in areas like this and it aggravating and if it's bad enough will cause people to not fish.

plotalot · Cobia Joined: 05 Mar 2008 Posts: 266

Dave, in a previous post on this thread you mentioned the public has until July 14 to express opinions on this matter. Would discussing as a group and submitting either a petition or near identical solutions be a good idea? Regardless I would submit something either as a solo act or part of a united front. I am putting up this post for all to view and hopefully comment on or at least give them a base to form their own opinion that they would forward. Like I said others with more knowledge than me have put a lot more thought into this than I am capable of. I'm not saying those people haven't put fishing into the equations, but I would like to point out this fisherman's observations, thoughts, ideas and opinions. I personally don't care if the fish or out of range or not, they'll come in to range eventually or I would extend my range. What concerns me more about reef placement is the ability to fight a fish in clean water.

I wasn't aware that the pyramids were designed to be resistant to the forces exerted by a hurricane. Though they pose a lesser threat of entanglement, there would still be a line abrasion issue associated with this style artificial reef. I would want to keep them in deeper water, because of the three it would appear to have the most affect on sediment flow. I would say put them in rather tight to the pier. If it were possible to put them in close enough I'd say put them off the end as well. Since as pier fishermen we have to have the angles working in our favor. We would all have to admit that if we have a fish on at say a 75 degree downward angle and the fish is still 15 feet down the fish has the upperhand, reef or no reef. Let your line scope out to say 40 degrees and if the fish wants to go down to 40 feet (if it can find water that deep) the angler has the advantage unless the fish can find an obstruction.

The stacked tier style reefs look as if they would reduce the chance of affecting natural sediment flow, especially if the lowermost tier were to be raised up from the bottom. They look like a great place to lose a lot of tackle and fish. They also look like a hurricane would pick them up and wash them around at will. I can't get an idea about their size in relation to the pier's piling spacing, but why wouldn't caging them inside the pilings help protect both the pier and the reef? It would also help with the entanglement issue.

The 'straw stacks' made from old pier material would probably tend to settle in over time and would create sediment issues the more they did settle. They look like they would be very efficient a grabbing fishing line. I would assume that they are the least expensive of the three, since the majority of the material is already there and it is free (some assembly is required). I don't know if the negatives out weigh the positives or vice versa. I would say keep them in close to the pier as long as they don't pose a threat to the pier from either sediment build up or getting washed into the pier during a storm.

cigar · Cigar Minnow Joined: 30 May 2007 Posts: 11

With a 1500' plus structure extending into the gulf, why is there need for ANY additional structure? Anything placed out there on the bottom will just cause shoaling and decrease the critical depth around the pier. Bait will hold out away from the pier along with the kings, tarpon, etc., not just off the end but the sides as well. Also with the longer pier with the end in clearer water we could see better cobia fishing than in the past. Reefs along the sides could turn the cobia before they even reach casting range of the pier. Another problem is that many hooked fish WILL find a way to wrap up on any reefs that have very much bottom relief at all. We've all waited a long time for this pier; we need to look very closely before doing something that can't be undone

SamSpivey. · Bonito Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 96 Location: Cantonment

I completely agree with CIGAR.

It just seems a little sketchy to me..

givnupfreshwater · Ladyfish Joined: 24 Jul 2007 Posts: 37 Location: Georgia

Pier#r and others, What are your thoughts after reading these comments?

Jigslinger · Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 1:53 pm Post subject:

I tend to agree with cigar and Sam. I think the pier itself is structure enough.
_________________
Rob

Pier#r · Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:05 pm Post subject:

After hearing the presentation firsthand, I can tell you the biologists were ONLY thinking in terms of making the new pier attractive to reef fish.
They have visions of it attracting (and holding) snapper (mangrove and red), grouper, triggerfish, rudderfish, etc. NOT PALEGICS!

My opinion (after reading the good comments raised) hasn't really changed.
IF the reefs are deployed (around the end) it will likely be at the expense of the pier being a FANTASTIC pier for mackerel (spanish & king) plus other palegics like tarpon, bonita, & jacks. It might even be better for ling

Not to mention the fall/winter bullred fishing would likley be ruined by all the snags and 'deflection' of schooling fish around the reef perimiter.
IMHO that is too high a price to pay for the remote possiblity of catching an occasional snapper or grouper

That is why I proposed to them as a compromise (see below) the idea of just having the reefs along the sides (or as someone suggested, the west side only).
That pier was NEVER a good cobia migration pier and IMHO it never will be.

Another aspect of putting the reefs in is that it could delay the opening of the pier for months as the CoE permitting process will take some time,
PLUS the time it would take to place the reefs could delay the opening even longer.

But that's just one man's opinion.
The state is asking for public input, so I encourage you all IF you care let them know what you think.
I trust they are trying to "do the right thing" to make it a great fishing pier.
And to be frank, the attendance at the public meetings was dismal IMO

givnupfreshwater · Ladyfish Joined: 24 Jul 2007 Posts: 37 Location: Georgia

I submitted a comment asking the piers be given away for use as reefs for public waters or not located on the end of the pier. I encourage all to submit comments.

Boodro · Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:16 pm Post subject: Pier Lights

Pier#r, tell me I didn't read that they will NOT put lights on the new pier pointed down in the water. Man, that was speck sight-fishing at it's best (or most aggravating).

Pier#r · Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:48 pm Post subject:

I'm afaid so Boo

But that's a battle for another day (with the US Fish & Wildlife)

Monday July 14th is THE LAST day to make public comment of the reefing proposal to the AL DCNR.

The next phase is the permitting process which could (potentially) delay the opening of the new pier for months.
Please read the email below and send your comments to

Waterway Construction Permits, Regulatory Wetlands
251-694-3776

http://www.sam.usace.army.mil/op/reg/
CESAM-OP@sam.usace.army.mil

Recreation Parks, Natural Resources
251-694-3724

http://www.sam.usace.army.mil/OPweb/default.htm
CESAM-OP@sam.usace.army.mil

or to Col. Jorns @
byron.g.jorns@sam.usace.army.mil

Mailing Address:
U.S. Army Engineer District, Mobile
P.O. Box 2288
Mobile, AL 36628-0001

or call General Information
Phone Number:
251-471-5966