Additional 45 ft. Is it worth it? SRC wants your opinion!

Calvin

If you have an opinion on this please reply! SRC will be looking for your comments here!

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Calvin - I need your opinion on lengthening the pier. The contractor is offering to donate the manpower and equipment to lengthen the pier an additional 45 feet. The County would have to pay for the additional permitting for the underwater lease (from the State) and the materials. A high estimate of the total cost is $125,000. I have identified potential funding.

The additional length would make it the longest pier in the Gulf of Mexico and possibly the longest pier in Florida. According to the survey work that was done in the initial permitting phases, we would only gain an additional 1 1/2 feet of depth.

It seems to me the additional length adds some benefit to the fishing public, but is it significant enough to warrant the additional expense? Will it improve the fishing at Navarre Beach? Is there value beyond the bragging rights? What do you think? Any info you can provide before next Monday would be greatly appreciated.

gg
Gordon Goodin via Blackberry

---------------------------------------------

From: Calvin Martin
To: Commissioner Goodin
Sent: Fri Nov 06 15:41:00 2009
Subject: Re: Lengthening pier

I've talked to a few local Navarre people and everyone is agreeing YES for the additional footage. Do you mind if I post this email on NavarrePier.com to solicit some opinions?

BTW, how much longer will an additional 45 ft take for the pier to be finished? We were looking at roughly May 1st already. Does that change?

--------------------------------------------------

----- Original Message -----
From: Commissioner Goodin
To: Calvin Martin
Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: Lengthening pier

Please spread the word. I'm interested in all input. We will have to include FEMA and I don't know if they will require more paperwork, but the contractor only needs an additional 7 contract days to complete this work. We need to make a decision whether to pursue this effort next week to avoid any other delays from the permitting process.

I'll send you the original e-mail(s) that got the idea rolling. We are estimating a little higher to be safe on our funding.

gg
Gordon Goodin via Blackberry

----------------------------------------

From: Roger Blaylock
Sent: Thu 11/5/2009 7:34 AM
To: Commissioner Goodin; Hunter Walker
Subject: Navarre Pier Extension

As requested,

Roger

-----Original Message-----
From: Patanio, James L [mailto:JLPatanio@pbsj.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 6:25 AM
To: Roger Blaylock; Lasch, Wayne D; Childs, Leslie E (Lizbeth); Wayne Waters; Conrad, David L
Subject: RE: Navarre Pier Extension

Roger,

The additional depth that would be gained from the 45' extension would be about 1.5' which would provide a bottom depth of -22' (information is based on the December 2006 survey from Morgan and Eklund, Inc.). The value of Ed Waters and Sons donation, strictly labor (excluding profit), would estimate a total of $41,000 providing the installation can be done over 5 day period. Please let me know if you need any additional information for Monday's committee meeting.

Regards
James Patanio
________________________________________

________________________________
From: Lasch, Wayne D [mailto:WDLasch@pbsj.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 2:26 PM
To: Roger Blaylock
Cc: Wayne Waters; Patanio, James L; Conrad, David L; Childs, Leslie E (Lizbeth)
Subject: FW: Navarre Pier Extension

Roger –

Wayne Waters has made an interesting proposal concerning lengthening the pier to make it “the longest”. His estimate below gives a price of $90,000 but, after briefly discussing this with him, it sounds like $100,000 would be a safer figure to plan on for the added construction cost based on his donation of labor he describes below.

If you’re interested in exploring this further, here are a few of the things that would need to be addressed:

· We’d need to revise the USACE and FDEP permits. This might involve going back to the NMFS and would depend on what Clif Payne thinks is necessary. This could be accomplished before the end of the project but we’d need to start soon in case it did need to go back to the NMFS.

· We’d need to get some survey work done to support extending the submerged land lease.

At this point, I’d say it would cost roughly $25,000 for the permitting and survey work (less if we did not need to go back to the NMFS). So the total budget would be about $125,000.

Let me know if you’re interested in pursuing this further. I’ll be out an vacation starting 10/26 through 11/5 but Lizbeth, James, or Dave can handle any questions you may have during this time.

Best regards,

Wayne Lasch, P.E.
PBS&J
Direct: 904.363.8449
This electronic mail communication may contain privileged, confidential, and/or proprietary information which is the property of either The PBSJ Corporation or one of its affiliates. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the intended recipient please delete this communication and notify the sender that you have received it in error.
From: Wew2150@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 1:59 PM
To: Lasch, Wayne D
Subject: Navarre Pier Extension

Wayne, in accordance with our recent conversation, we have prepared a cost estimate for materials and fixed costs to extend the Navarre Pier a total of 45'. This would be accomplished by lengthening the beams at span 41 from 25' to 35' and adding a standard 35' bay. According to our records, the total length of 1,545' would make it the longest pier on the Gulf, and possibly the longest in the State of Florida. If this is in fact the case, we would be willing to donate all additional labor, equipment, supervision, and overhead just to be a part of this history making event. We would only ask as compensation, payment for the actual invoice costs for materials and subs shown in the attached estimate which won't exceed $90,000. Additionally, we would need an additional 7 days of contract time, and would ask that where appropriate, we be recognized in any media events or publications that address the record length pier constructed in Navarre.

As we discussed, I believe the County, PBS&J, and EW&S would like to boast of the record length pier, and if funds are available now of course is the time to do it if permitting allows. I know the fishermen wouldn't mind getting out there a little further either!

Please give me a call to discuss further if you should have any questions.

Wayne

--------------------------------------------

This concerns me, but we can easily explain why they shouldn't oppose this change.

gg

Gordon Goodin
Santa Rosa County Commissioner, District 4
850-983-1876

www.santarosa.fl.gov

www.GulfCoastAerospaceandDefense.com

Public Records Notice
Florida has a very broad public records law. Written communications to or from elected officials regarding official matters are public records available to the public and media upon request. Your e-mail and other communications are subject to public disclosure.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Roger Blaylock
Sent: Fri 11/6/2009 3:17 PM
To: Sheila Harris
Cc: Hunter Walker; Commissioner Goodin
Subject: Re: Pier Length Extension

Thanks,

Roger A. Blaylock, P.E.
Santa Rosa County Engineer
Sent via Blackberry

sent from my blackberry phone

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sheila Harris
To: Commissioner Goodin
Cc: Roger Blaylock; Hunter Walker
Sent: Fri Nov 06 15:11:20 2009
Subject: Re: Pier Length Extension

Even if we intend to assume the cost associated with the length extension, we are still changing the scope of work that was approved by the State and FEMA as part of the improved project request. An improved project request was required due to the footprint and design-construction changes. I don't think they would be opposed to the length extension provided we seek the other appropriate approvals/permitting, but I believe we need State/FEMA approval prior to changes so we don't risk the pier funding overall. If I hear otherwise from State/FEMA, I'll let you know.

sent from my blackberry phone

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Roger Blaylock
To: Sheila Harris
Sent: Fri Nov 06 14:13:00 2009
Subject: FW: Pier Length Extension

Any thoughts on Comm Goodin's question?

Roger A. Blaylock, P.E.
Santa Rosa County Engineer
850 981-7100 Office
850 983-2161 FAX

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Commissioner Goodin
Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 2:00 PM
To: Roger Blaylock; Hunter Walker
Subject: Re: Pier Length Extension

If FEMA isn't financially responsible for any of this addition, why would they care or be involved?
Gordon Goodin via Blackberry

sent from my blackberry phone

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Roger Blaylock
To: Hunter Walker; Commissioner Goodin
Sent: Fri Nov 06 13:39:01 2009
Subject: FW: Pier Length Extension

fyi

Roger

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sheila Harris
Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 10:18 AM
To: Roger Blaylock
Cc: 'Lasch, Wayne D'
Subject: Pier Length Extension

Roger,

As I mentioned over the phone, I am concerned that any change to the approved scope of work such as extending the length would have an implication on the approved "improved project" that was approved by FEMA. Their approval was based on the dimensions previously provided to them and I feel that any change would require another request for improved project. I have a call into FEMA to clarify how to proceed.

Sheila A. Harris, Special Projects/Grants
Santa Rosa County BOCC
6495 Caroline Street, Suite H
Milton, Florida 32570
(850) 983-1848 (850) 393-5239 (Cell)
(850) 983-1944 Fax
sheilah@santarosa.fl.gov

_________________
Calvin Martin
*http://www.myspace.com/lopcalvin*
*LordsofPain.net - WWE Wrestling News & Results*

blaminack · Billfish Joined: 12 Jul 2009 Posts: 731

I have no dog in the hunt coming from a different county but it makes sense to get the most that you can while you can and are already set up to do it. It would be a shame to look back and just wish they had taken advantage of the opportunity. While the length difference may not make a huge change right now, but in a few years who knows what the bottom profile will look like? This may be the best thing that could be done. And it couldn't hurt. And if it were me I would charge the tourists a little more to walk out to cover the $ difference.
_________________
Master of the obvious...

Garb · Cobia Joined: 11 Aug 2009 Posts: 263 Location: P.C.B.

Bill has a point.

To try and justify the additional $90,000 is obsurd when it comes down to make history. History will never be forgotten, and as Bill said if you charge like $1 more to sight see then it would only take 90,000 people to walk on the pier. Why bother ttrying to justify, do it longer pier means deeper water means more fishing room, more fishing room means more people able to fish. Just my .02
_________________
Chad <---- Googan's don't fish in the rain....

Kingfshr · Cobia Joined: 15 Jul 2009 Posts: 407

Change orders on Gov't building contracts can get mired in red tape. The extra length when finished would be deffinately a bonus.

If this pier is going to have a rectangle end like Russel/Fields ( longer than wider) 45 ft will add alot of King fishing space.
_________________
I'd rather be Pompano fishing !

robertyb · Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:02 pm Post subject:

$125,000.00 is a drop in the bucket on a $9,000,000.00 pier project.

You have a chance to be the LONGEST pier in Fl. at present time. Go for it, I assure you that once done you will never regret it other than to say "It should have been longer" while we had the chance.
_________________

kingling · Billfish Joined: 20 Dec 2007 Posts: 774

i say go for it!!!!
more king mackarel will die
not to metion there will be more room

fishkill · Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:39 pm Post subject:

Make it happen the equipment is already there. I am all for it.
_________________
Tracey

pierbird · Bonito Joined: 12 Jul 2009 Posts: 88 Location: Austell

I'll vote yes go for it
_________________

outlawsr <0)))>{ · Billfish Joined: 14 Jul 2009 Posts: 641

For me braggin rights are no big thing it dont matter to me how long a pier is just so I can get to the kings and cobia . My opinion is if your looking at length and braggin right you can do this by simply adding length to the apron or ramp coming onto the pier as this is part of the overall length you wouldnt need as much cash to get braggin rights this way.

But you need to look at the sand bar and study pics from the past ten years of ariel shots of that area see where they have moved from or to and superimpose them onto a newer pic of the area see where it would put it it maybe a bennifit if it is moving or has moved near where it will be in may no use building a pier and ending it in the path of a sand bar and go from 20+ ft of water to 15 ft of water that would suck remora balls. 45 ft dont seem like much but it could make or break a pier in 5 years down the road

another thing is how big is the end going to be would 125g's make a larger end cap or octogon? that would mean more guys on the end that would be better to lol
_________________

cheesegrits · Hardtail Joined: 06 Oct 2009 Posts: 17

Making the pier longer would make me consider where I want to drive to go fish an easier task. I would think the extension would be an awesome thing. Why not extend it 90 ft. 250,000 out of 9mil is still not a lot. Take Pensacola as an example, the old bridge was 7000 ft., the new is 2500. Don't you think the day will come when they say wow I wish we would have made it longer. Navarre was always my favorite pier, it being the longest would confirm my destination next year and will be where I spend my money when I drive down from Ga.

plotalot · Cobia Joined: 05 Mar 2008 Posts: 264

Here's my take on it most of my points have been covered at least once but I will list hem anyways:
1 Call it bragging rights, a record, history or whatever. The opportunity is within reach and now.
2 The contractor wants to be apart of this for their personal satisfaction and to be able to make record setting claims in their company portfolio. The contractor is willing to donate the additional labor in trade for this and a 7 day, not month or week contract extension. I have been pleased with the progress the contractor has been making from the reports I view here (thanks Calvin and others), so I am in favor of letting them reach an obtainable milestone.
3. Sand shifts. It is not a matter of if it is a matter of when, where and how much. An extra forty-five feet may prove to be a wise decision years down the line.
4. It is a bargain. If the $9,000,000 figure stated by Robert is accurate the additional forty-five feet will average less than half per foot as the initial 1500 feet.
5. It is forty-five more feet. Though it may not sound as it is that important, but there will be times when that little bit extra will allow us, the anglers to reach water holding fish. I have fished on piers and jetties all along the upper Gulf Coast and noticed a common theme. The end of the pier or jetty may not always be in the prime waters, but the end almost always seems to be one of the most popular fishing spots. If 450 feet were added to the initial planned length there would be just as many people at the end if not more. As the line from the movie "Field of Dreams" said, "If you build it they will come."
6. The time to decide this is now while the contractor is on site and willing to do this, not years from now. If someone has regret later and were to look into the cost of adding any length at all, there would be severe "sticker shock" and the idea will die.
_________________
It's my duty to make fish pay for their mistakes.

skipperq1 · Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:40 pm Post subject:

I would absolutely support the idea of extending the Navarre Beach an additional
45 feet to make it the longest on the Florida Gulf Coast! I believe it would make it a
better fishing pier and maybe even give us an occasional shot at a Blackfin Tuna!

Tex@OIP · Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:32 am Post subject:

How many cobes have you seen go by just out of range...I know there have been times I would have done anything to get out 45 more feet...now I have a kayak! Get the 45ft!
_________________
http://www.flickr.com/photos/team-mayhem

kyjake · Hardtail Joined: 16 Aug 2009 Posts: 24

Should be done,the extra length means room for more people at the deep end of the pier.
Jake
_________________
Been fishing 65 years,still learning

Pier2 · Cigar Minnow Joined: 17 Aug 2009 Posts: 3

The longer the pier, the better the fishing. And the better the fishing, the more money the owners will make due to an increase in customers. The owners need to be proactive and step up and get this done if they want to make more money.

JJ35 · Spanish Mackerel Joined: 11 Jul 2009 Posts: 50

I'm all for the extra 45'

_________________
Philippians 1:21
"For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain."

MS PAT · King Mackerel Joined: 10 Apr 2007 Posts: 159

COUNT ME IN ON THE YES VOTE TOO. A FRIEND OF MINE WENT OUT TO THE PIER FRIDAY AND THE CRANE OPERATOR TOOK HER ALL THE WAY TO THE END. THEY ARE A 910 FEET AS OF FRIDAY EVENING. I WOULD BE WILLING TO CONTRIBUTE TO A FUND TO RAISE $100,000 IF THE COUNTY WON'T OK IT. EVERYBODY CALL THE COUNTY COMMISSIOINERS AND SUPPORT THE ADDITIONAL 45 FEET!
_________________
HAPPY HOOKIN'

ROLLLLLLLL TIDE!!!

Tiderider · Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:28 pm Post subject:

It's worth it, DO IT!!!
_________________
Go Fishing you can't catch them sitting on the couch!!!

drew h · Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:08 pm Post subject:

I say go for, it will give you alot more room to fish

kidcobia · Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:10 pm Post subject:

I dont know how many times I have watched fish swim just out of range, the oppurtunity is there .....TAKE IT

_________________
Matt Mandeville

nb&twil · Billfish Joined: 31 Mar 2007 Posts: 565

Aside from the positive aspects this proposed 45' would bring to the local fishermen, let's take a look at the benefit to the local economy. The Upper Gulf Coast (Panama City to Orange Beach) is a very very common "drive to" destination for tourists. Oftentimes, the decision on where to vacation is decided by outdoor activities by families planning vacations. With the consistent decline of offshore fishing, due to new regulations that decrease limits and seasons of bottomfish, pier and beach fishing will becomre more popular.
If the Navarre Pier were able to boast as the "longest pier in the gulf" it would increase the appeal to vacationers around the southeast U.S. The extra cost of 45' will be payed for very rapidly by pier admission sales. On top of that, it will increase has the potential to stimulate several local businesses form restaurants, rental properties, fuel sales, etc etc... In the economic state that our country is in right now, the only way to secure increased income for a community is to be aggressive with increasing the appeal of the community.
The pier (fishing) AND the local economy WILL benefit if the proposed additional 45 feet are approved.

nb&twil · Billfish Joined: 31 Mar 2007 Posts: 565

All of that being said, I do believe that the fishing quality would increase by adding 45 feet. Frequently the water quality will be drastically different and a clear visible change in just a 10-20 foot change. Sometimes this "line" will be right at the end of the pier, leaving the pier in "poor water" and 50 feet beyond the pier "pretty water." The additional length will also provide more fishing area. While the equipment is available and on location, it seems to make perfect sense to build the additional length.

Jigslinger · Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:34 pm Post subject:

Sounds like a deal you shouldn't let get away. Grab it while you can.
_________________
Rob

park3080 · Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:50 pm Post subject: go for it

I have only fished Navarre once and would love to see it lengthened. with it compleated and the county pier in pcb finished next year it could only help fishing and the general area at the same time as well as cut down on crowding especially during ling season.

SonShineFishing · Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:43 pm Post subject:

You need all the length you can get. Okaloosa was 22 feet at the end when it reopened. It is now about 17 feet deep at the end. The pilings stop moving sand causing shoaling. You will wish you had added more than 45 feet ten years from now.

WD · Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:24 pm Post subject:

I'll support the extra 45'
_________________

squidder · Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:57 pm Post subject:

I agree with the 45 extra feet. This little investment will be a drop in the bucket to the additional revenue it will generate.
_________________
Rick C.

jim mills · Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:55 pm Post subject:

Yes, the extra footage will be nice for all except we senior citizens. I'm already ticked with the EPA over their discriminating against senior citizens by not allowing restrooms on the end of the piers. Let's face it, seniors have to go much more frequently. Now, going to the restroom will require a round trip of more than half a mile walking. This will deny many seniors the ability to fish the pier. The logic the EPA is using should also require the removal from the gulf of all boats with a marine head. Any of them could sink and put some waste into the water. But, then, many decision makers in that organization are not known for logic or common sense.

Yes, I am quite angry that the EPA seems determined to prevent we senior citizens from fishing.

Jim
_________________
Jim Mills
Frayed around the edges

Tex@OIP · Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:50 pm Post subject:

trollinstoned · Cigar Minnow Joined: 29 May 2007 Posts: 10

Yes! More fishable area means less crowding, even with more paying
customers. Fishing tourists will rent closer to these type piers.

the original pier pest · Cobia Joined: 30 Jul 2009 Posts: 322 Location: Montgomery

That inturn means more money for the local economy, which will mean more jobs and so on and so forth. Nothing but good things can come from extending the pier.
_________________
"Anyone can catch a king but not everyone can gaff one" (Charlie V.)

jim mills · Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 2:28 pm Post subject:

[/quote]

Nobody said you have to fish on the end.[/quote]

I'm afraid that comment rates right there with the EPA's decision not to allow restrooms on the end of the piers.

Jim
_________________
Jim Mills
Frayed around the edges

REEFDUP · King Mackerel Joined: 10 Sep 2009 Posts: 198

Someone was tellin me that in the past after hurricanes damaged the old pier ,instead of fixin it they just chopped the damaged part off and that was the new end.If this is the case ,why not save that money for repairs or at least get the damaged pilins and debris out so you can fish w/out obstructions in the way.
_________________
"I may be ugly, but at least i ain't got no money"

jaceboat · Cobia Joined: 15 Apr 2008 Posts: 263 Location: pensacola

do it!
_________________
RIP TC you will always be remembered.

Reel Stamas · Spanish Mackerel Joined: 04 Oct 2009 Posts: 50

Bigger (longer) is always better & I agree that if necessary, charge $1 more until the extra ~$100K+/- is re-couped... If 10 extra people/wk decide to drive to Navarre to fish (& spend money on food, lodging, etc)) instead of somewhere else, it won't take long to pay for itself... Sounds like a 'no brainer' to me (& I may never get to enjoy it as we'll have 2 awesome piers here in PCB;)
_________________
BAN ALL COMMERCIAL FISHING IN THE GULF OF MEXICO & RETURN THE RESOURCE TO THE PEOPLE WHO DESERVE IT & RESPECT IT!!!

MikePe · Ladyfish Joined: 08 Aug 2009 Posts: 34

I definitley vote yes.

rabbit · Hardtail Joined: 28 Aug 2009 Posts: 23

i definatly vote yes.

there have been many times i would have killed to reached 45' farther out with a cast. take advantage of the opportunity.

I think jim is a cool guy to, so if he needs to go to the restroom, someone should be there with a golf cart waiting to take him

zlewis · Cigar Minnow Joined: 11 Jul 2009 Posts: 8

Got my blessing for whatever that is worth. I think it would be great if for no better reason than bragging rights.
_________________
Teach a man to fish.....and you've lost one more person to cover your shift so you can go.

Pier#r · Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:57 am Post subject:

Similar sentiment here:

Would I drive 90 miles to fish THE LONGEST PIER ON THE GULFCOAST?

HELL YA!

Calvin · Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:13 pm Post subject:

On 11/9/2009 10:59:04 AM, Commissioner Goodin wrote:
> Thanks Calvin!
> We're still meeting, but we have moved the proposal to Thursday's agenda 11/12
> to authorize staff to pursue permits and other necessary items to build the
> 45 foot extension.
>
> Funding isn't a problem and will be addressed as the project advances.
>
> gg
> Gordon Goodin via Blackberry
>
> sent from my blackberry phone
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: Calvin Martin
> To: Commissioner Goodin
> Sent: Mon Nov 09 10:54:01 2009
> Subject: 45 ft extension proposal received overwhelming response
>
> Check link:
>
> http://emeraldcoastpierfishing.myfastforum.org/about2980.html
_________________
Calvin Martin
*http://www.myspace.com/lopcalvin*
*LordsofPain.net - WWE Wrestling News & Results*

cheesegrits · Hardtail Joined: 06 Oct 2009 Posts: 17

Now that deserves a HELL YEAH !!!!!!! Way to go Calvin

Tiderider · Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:51 pm Post subject:

I can't really see any pier fisherman actually saying no to more pier. If there's going to be a protest it'll come from an external source, heck maybe even that one SR commish who didn't even want the pier rebuilt.
Regardless, Great Job keeping us informed Calvin.
_________________
Go Fishing you can't catch them sitting on the couch!!!

FishAddict · King Mackerel Joined: 11 Jul 2009 Posts: 164

Seems like a bargain to me.......